美论坛：中国经常提到自己有5000年的历史，得到国际公认了吗?

史书是一个国家记录它的发展，朝代更替，历史兴衰以及它的历史源头的一个非常重要的书籍。而中国就是一个善于记录历史的国家，有很多历史书籍，例如《史记》、《左传》、《资治通鉴》等等都记录了一个时期的历史发展。而西方这些国家就不像中国这么注重对历史的记录，他们则会出现历史断层的现象，一个时期到另一个时期，中间缺少了一部分，并且有一些国家，建立的时间并不长，那就没有历史可言了。

根据史书的记载，中国有5000年的历史是毋庸置疑的。然而，西方国家的学者，认为中国只有“3300”年的历史。西方学者为什么要这样认为呢？

在美国最大的论坛Quora就有老美发出这样的提问：中国经常提到自己有5000年的历史。依据是什么?这是一个国际公认的主张吗?地球上的其他地方也可以这样说吗? 这个问题也是引起了不少国外的历史爱好者的谈论，让我们来看看他们的观点吧

论坛话题

英国网友埃里克的观点

You might be confusing history with the past. History is a written record of what happens in the past. It's generally accepted that the best source is recorded by the people who were there, but of course any artifacts or recordings of history have their own bias, are often incomplete, and very subject to interpretation.

你可能混淆了历史和过去。历史是对过去发生的事情的书面记录。人们普遍认为，最好的来源是由在场的人记录的，但是当然，任何文物或历史记录都有自己的偏见，通常是不完整的，非常容易解释。

Having a generally accepted account of the past is no small matter. You don't have to go too far back in Dead White Guy (i.e. Western) history to see this. Read "The Lodger Shakespeare". It's fascinating how so little history exists on the best known author humankind has ever produced, and the heroic efforts it takes to recover it.

对过去有一个普遍接受的叙述不是一件小事。你不必回溯到《死白人》(即西方)的历史就能看到这一点。读一读《房客莎士比亚》。令人着迷的是，人类有史以来最著名的作者的历史如此之少，而恢复历史需要英勇的努力。

So, sure, here where I'm sitting in Maryland, I'm sure something was going on 5000 years ago. But I'm sure no one knows what. Wildlife? Native Americans? Aliens? There's no record. But a lot of such records exist for China, which is an impressive feat of and tribute to their civilization.

所以，当然，我现在坐在马里兰州，我确信5000年前发生了一些事情。但我相信没人知道是怎么回事。野生动物吗?印第安人?外星人吗?没有记录。但中国有很多这样的记录，这是一个令人印象深刻的壮举，也是对他们文明的致敬。

美国网友马修的观点

Yes, we all have history. But the claim is actually about "culture" not "history." If we go back 5,000 years no one was speaking English. In Europe they were speaking a proto-indo european language that originated in Turkey. The timing of this language migration is still debated but we can be sure that no modern european languages and writing system existed then.

是的，我们都有历史。但这种说法实际上是关于“文化”而不是“历史”。如果我们回到5000年前，没有人会说英语。在欧洲，他们说的是一种起源于土耳其的原始印欧语。这种语言迁移的时间仍有争议，但我们可以肯定的是，当时没有现代欧洲语言和书写系统。

New evidence from carbon dated millet show that the Chinese were farming 8,000 years ago. Cliff carvings in China using over 8,000 Chinese characters have been dated to 6,000 to 5,000 BCE, which would make actually their culture 8,000 to 7,000 years old.

对小米进行碳年代测定的新证据表明，中国人在8000年前就开始耕种了。中国的悬崖雕刻有超过8000个汉字，可以追溯到公元前6000到5000年，这意味着他们的文化实际上有8000到7000年的历史。

In other parts of the world cultures arose, died out, or evolved into something extremely different. Chinese culture has remained very close to its origin. This is the reason for the claim in your question.

在世界的其他地方，文化兴起，消亡，或者演变成一种截然不同的东西。中华文化一直非常接近它的起源。这就是你问题中所说的理由。

美国网友的观点

Everywhere there is history. You are right to say that almost every place has a 5000 year history, but for China it has been almost constant. The Chinese have been relatively in the same place for 5000 years. They have grown from the same culture for quite awhile as well. They excelled much throughout their history, inventing things hundreds of years before the Europeans even thought of it.

历史无处不在。你说的对，几乎每个地方都有5000年的历史，但对中国来说，它几乎是恒定的。中国人已经相对地在同一个地方呆了5000年。他们也在同样的文化中成长了很长一段时间。他们在整个历史上都很出色，发明的东西总是能领先欧洲几百年。

Although explaining every single piece of Chinese history would take years, to put is efficiently: they have survived until this point in time through failures of government, colonialism, and even genocide. They invented gun powder, fireworks, paper (and paper armor, might I add), and knew America existed before Columbus decided to set sail and wipe out thousands of Native Americans for gold.

尽管解释每一段中华历史都需要花费数年时间，但简单地说:他们通过政府、殖民主义甚至种族灭绝的失败幸存到现在。他们发明了火药、烟花、纸(还有纸盔甲，容我补充一句)，在哥伦布决定扬帆远航、为了黄金而消灭成千上万的印第安人之前，他们就知道美洲的存在。

Portions of Chinese philosophy and philosophical interpretations still exist today through Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and the intermixing of different cultures. And if that isn't enough, there are over 50 plus other ethnic Chinese cultures that exist in China that vary so much amongst each other.

通过佛教、道教、儒教和不同文化的交融，中国哲学和哲学解释的一部分今天仍然存在。如果这还不够的话，中国还有56种其他民族的文化，彼此之间差异很大。

The problem I have with this question and with you is that you are phrasing it as a way to insult the Chinese. You are basically asking, "How dare the Chinese brag about 5000 years of history, when other people have histories just as better as they do, if not entirely better."

我对这个问题和你的问题是，你的措辞是一种羞儒中国人的方式。你基本上是在问，“天朝人怎么敢吹嘘自己有5000年的历史，而其国家的历史和他们一样悠久，如果不是完全更悠久的话。”

So let me take back what I said in the beginning. You are not right about the 5000 year history. Considering evidence has gone all the way back to 7000 BC of China's historical existence, I would say it is rather a 9000 year history (OVER 9000!!!!!!!!).

让我收回我一开始说的话。你对5000年历史的看法是不对的。考虑到证据可以一直追溯到公元前7000年的中华历史存在，我想说这是9000年的历史(超过9000年!!!!!!!!)。

中国网友的观点

It's the same for everyone on Earth? Really? That's a new one.

地球上的每个国家都一样吗? 真的吗?这是一个新问题。

That obvious flaw in the claim aside, the Chinese historical legacy is unique for reasons other than its sheer antiquity.

撇开这一说法中的明显缺陷不谈，中国的历史遗产之所以独特，除了纯粹的古老之外。

Continuity
We're still the same group of people living on the same land as we've always been since the Shang Dynasty. Most place and surnames have even remained the same, which to an anthropologist is one of the most important signs of civilization continuity.

连续性
自商朝以来，我们仍然是生活在同一片土地上的同一群人。大多数地名和姓氏甚至保持不变，这对人类学家来说是文明延续的最重要标志之一。

Originality
Chinese created the Chinese written language from scratch. Very, very, very few civilizations on Earth can make such a claim. And of those only 2 others remain in active use: Hebrew and Sanskrit. All other written languages still in use today are derivatives of an older language from an alien civilization. Korean Hangul is a strong contender, but it's similarity to the Mongol script is uncanny. And even if Korean can prove the pure originality of its script, it's still using a huge number of Chinese loan words. Japanese Kana are all derivations of Chinese radicals either printed (Katakana) or written in cursive (Hiragana). Which leads us to the other aspect of Chinese language: its extreme paucity of loan words.

独创性

中国人从无到有创造了中华的书面语言。地球上极少数的文明能够做出这样的壮举。其中只有希伯来语和梵语两种语言仍在使用。今天仍在使用的所有其他书面语言都是来自外星文明的古老语言的衍生品。

Prominence
China civilization, whether under Han Chinese or non-Han rule has pretty much always been the single most or one two most prosperous, developed and technologically advanced civilizations on Earth. It's only in the last 300 years that Western civilization has decisively surpassed Chinese civilization technological and economically.

中华文明，无论是在汉人统治下还是非汉人统治下，几乎一直是地球上最繁荣、最发达、技术最先进的文明。在过去的300年里，西方文明才在技术和经济上决定性地超越了华夏文明。

The "5000 years of history" thing is not meant to be taken literally. It is just a phrase to highlight the overall grandeur of Chinese civilization. Were the Romans alive today, they'd probably tell you the same.

“5000年的历史”不是字面上的意思。它只是一个用来彰显中华文明整体辉煌的词语。如果今天的罗马人还活着，他们可能也会这么说。

美国历史爱者的观点

China’s claim to 5,000 years of history depends on your definition of what “history” is and when it starts.

中国称拥有5000年历史，这取决于你对“历史”的定义以及它是何时开始的。

In the English-speaking world, at least among historians, the consensus seems to be that “history” starts with written records. If this standard is applied, then certainly China can only claim 4,000 at a stretch; the earliest “oracle bones” — turtle plastrons and scapulae of oxen on which the Shang shamans wrote an archaic version of Chinese — date back to about 1200 BCE, so we’re only talking 3,200 years, and if you generously assume that writing took a little while to develop to the form in which it’s found on these accoutrements of scapulimancy, you can maybe go back as far as 2000 BCE.

在英语世界，至少在历史学家中，共识似乎是“历史”始于书面记录。 如果按照这个标准，那么中国一口气肯定只能报4000； 最早的“甲骨”——商巫在其上书写古代中文的龟甲骨和牛肩胛骨——可以追溯到公元前 1200 年左右，所以我们只谈了 3200 年，如果你慷慨地假设写作需要一个要发展到在这些肩胛骨装备上发现的形式，您也许可以追溯到公元前 2000 年。

In the casual, non-specialist way that the word “history” is used — in English as well as in Chinese — what people often mean when they cite the beginning of a civilization’s history is the date at which that civilization can be said to have begun. When Chinese say 5,000 years, they’re really reaching back into preliterate times of mostly legend, during which there may have been “civilization” — organized, stratified societies that built cities — but of which no solid archaeological evidence has yet been unearthed.

在英语和汉语中，“历史”一词的随意的、非专业的使用方式中，人们在引用一个文明历史的开始时，通常指的是该文明可以说开始的日期。当中国人说5000年的时候，他们实际上是回到了传说中的前文字时代，在这段时间里可能已经有了“文明”——有组织的、分层的社会，建造了城市——但还没有出土确凿的考古证据。

There were other civilizations with histories that date back to 3000 BCE by the written history test, let alone the less formal beginning-of-history vernacular definition. What distinguishes China, though, is that it’s the only one of the ancient civilizations to have actually survived, and done so in the same geographic region where that ancient history all took place.

根据书面历史测试，还有其他文明的历史可以追溯到公元前3000年，更不用说不那么正式的历史开始的白话定义了。然而，中国的独特之处在于，它是唯一一个真正幸存下来的古代文明，而且是在同一个地理区域，而古代的历史都发生在这个区域。

Egypt and the civilization of Mesopotamia qualify, the Indus Valley civilization of north India and the Minoan civilization of Crete almost reach back that far, but it would be hard to make the case that they’re continuous in any real sense with modern India and Greece. Yes, there’s a nation astride the Nile that’s called Egypt, but it’s an Arab-speaking, mostly Arab state and has since the conquests of the Arabs in the mid-7th century. Mesopotamia became Arab around the same time, and though there are pockets of people who may indeed be descended directly from ancient Mesopotamian peoples (the Syriac Christians who claim descent from the ancient Assyrians, for instance), they don’t comprise a civilization the way China does.

埃及和美索不达米亚文明，印度北部的印度河流域文明和克里特岛的米诺斯文明几乎可以追溯到那么远，但很难证明它们与现代印度和希腊在任何意义上是连续的。当然，尼罗河上有一个叫埃及的国家，但它是一个说阿拉伯语的，大部分是阿拉伯国家，自7世纪中叶阿拉伯人征服以来就一直如此。

But never mind the oft-used (and mocked) “5,000 years” figure for now. Since we were talking about language, one impressive note about the Chinese language is that, as pointed out by Quora user Samuel Daniel Zhao 赵思恩, it is contiguous from 2000 BCE to modern day:

不过，现在先别在意那个经常被使用(和嘲笑)的“5000年”数字。既然我们在谈论语言，关于中国语言的一个令人印象深刻的地方是，正如Quora用户塞缪尔·丹尼尔·赵(Samuel Daniel Zhao)赵思恩所指出的，它从公元前2000年一直延续到现代:

The oracle bone was used in the Shang Dynasty, the greater and lesser seal were used during the Zhou, Spring and Autumn/ Warring States Periods, while the Clerical script was used in the Han Dynasty. The running and the cursive script are only used in calligraphy.

商代使用甲骨文，周、春秋战国时期使用大印和小印，汉代使用隶书。行书和草书只用于书法。

There’s obvious contiguity with later Chinese characters. Some of them remain almost unchanged.

与后来的汉字有明显的连续性。其中一些几乎没有改变。

英国华裔网友的观点

"The Chinese have created the single most extensive and enduring civilization in the world. Their language, spoken and written in the same forms over nearly four thousand year, binds their vast country together and links the present with the past, expressing a unified culture unmatched elsewhere."

“中国人创造了世界上最广泛、最持久的文明。他们的语言，在近四千年的时间里以相同的形式说和写，把他们广阔的国家联系在一起，把现在和过去联系在一起，表达了一种其他地方无法比拟的统一文化。”

----- From introduction of Chinese Hall, Great Britain Museum

-----来自大英博物馆中国馆介绍

越南网友的观点

Based on the recent trend of revisionism after major archaeological discoveries in China in 20th and 21st centuries (notably Sanxingdui in Sichuan and Liangzhu in Zhejiang) there is physical evidence for such claim.

在中国20世纪和21世纪的重大考古发现(特别是四川的三星堆和浙江的良渚)之后，最近的修正主义趋势为这种说法提供了实物证据。

Classical view of Chinese civilization starts with Yellow River state cities and primitive dynasties such as Xia and Shang. Chinese may attempt to extend it further to semilegend/semihistorical figures such as Yao and Shun. But even that stretching still makes Chinese civilzation rather young compared with Egyptian and Sumerian.

中华文明的经典观点始于黄河沿岸的国家城市和原始王朝，如夏、商。中国人可能试图将其进一步扩展到半传说/半历史人物，如尧和舜。但即便如此，与埃及和苏美尔文明相比，中华文明仍然相当年轻。

China civilization in historiography is also a little odd compared with old civilizations such as Egypt and Sumer. They do not have many gods and folklores regard the genesis of Chinese people. Huangdi and Yandi are too human compared with Indian and Egyptian gods. This lacking is due to the later synthesis of many states’ history and civilizations into one Chinese civilization.

中国文明在史学上与埃及、苏美尔等古老文明相比，也有些古怪。他们没有多少神灵和民间传说来看待中国人的起源。与印度和埃及的神相比，黄帝和炎帝太人性化了。这种缺乏是由于后来将许多国家的历史和文明综合成一个中华文明。

Archeological study also showed that the premise of Xia dynasty existence is very weak by Western standards. This couples with exciting discoveries in areas tradionally regarded as periphery of Chinese civilization made Chinese historians rethink of the formation of Chinese civilization. The most notable change is the multicenter origin of Chinese civilization instead of Yellow river single center. This actually is reflected in the Records of Grand Historians: Great Yu was born in Sichuan but died in Zhejiang, both are distant lands from the Central Plain. Han scholars readily accepted this fact.

考古研究也表明，以西方标准衡量，夏朝存在的前提非常薄弱。再加上在传统上被视为中华文明边缘地区的令人兴奋的发现，使中国历史学家重新思考中华文明的形成。最显著的变化是中华文明起源由黄河单一中心变成了多中心。这在《史记》中就有反映:大禹生于四川，死于浙江，都是远离中原的地方。汉代学者欣然接受了这一说法

中国网友的观点

I am Chinese, and I love history. I hope my answer is objective and fair. In China, everyone, no matter the aged or the children studying in kindergarten, knows the proverb: Five thousand years of Chinese civilization.

我是中国人，我热爱历史。我希望我的回答是客观公正的。在中国，无论是老人还是幼儿园的孩子，都知道这句谚语:中华文明五千年。

In fact, China has a written history of 3700 years. The first dynasty of China, The Xia, recorded in ancient history books, still has not be verified by historians as no pertinent cultural relics have been found. (However, the story of the great floods as recorded has been verified by geology experts)

事实上，天朝有3700年的书面历史。古代史书中记载的中国第一个朝代夏朝，由于没有发现相关文物，至今还没有得到史家的考证。(然而，大洪水的故事已经被地质专家证实了)

However, we have many myths handed down in China that tells the stories five thousand years ago: "The just war between Huangdi and Chiyou", "Yandi and Huangdi United two tribes to form the Han nationality". These are precious memories inherited by the Chinese people from generation to generation. We are willing to accept these stories and believe that many of them actually happened, so we think our history began in 5000 years ago, and it has continued without break since then.

然而，我们在中国流传着许多讲述五千年前故事的神话:“黄帝与蚩尤的正义之战”，“炎帝和黄帝联合两个部落，形成了汉族”。这些都是中国人民代代相传的宝贵记忆。我们愿意接受这些故事，并相信其中许多故事确实发生过，所以我们认为我们的历史开始于5000年前，从那时起就一直没有中断过。

The unique feature of China's history is the inheritance of a long unbroken civilisation and culture. It is different from Europe. For example, in Europe, Greek civilization and the early Roman Republic coexisted but they disintegrated. There are many differences between the national composition of France and England in ancient Europe and today. We can see it as the history of many nations. A French person will not see their history starting at 50 BC, as he does not see himself as a Roman.

中国历史的独特之处在于传承了源远流长的文明和文化。它与欧洲不同。例如，在欧洲，希腊文明和早期罗马共和国共存，但它们解体了。在古代欧洲和今天，法国和英国的民族构成有许多不同。我们可以把它看作是许多国家的历史。一个法国人不会认为他们的历史是从公元前50年开始的，因为他不认为自己是罗马人。

Now Europe has French, German, English and many other languages at the same time, but Chinese has been handed down for thousands of years. Our writing has never been interrupted. Even an ordinary Chinese can still understand the old writing from ancient times, but the various Europeans have changed so much and so different from ancient Greeks and Romans, can they write or talk with Socrates and Cicero of that time?

现在欧洲同时有法语、德语、英语和许多其他语言，但汉语已经流传了数千年。我们的写作从未中断过。即使是一个普通的中国人也能看懂古代的古老文字，但是各个欧洲人已经发生了很大的变化，与古希腊罗马人有很大的不同，他们能和当时的苏格拉底、西塞罗一样写作或交谈吗?

This is the unique place of Chinese civilization.

这是中华文明的独特之处。

In addition, China's geographical environment also makes it difficult for China to communicate with other countries.

此外，中国的地理环境也使中国与其他国家的交流变得困难。

The western part of China is covered with snow and glaciers, with an average altitude of 3500 meters. The southwest is a dense rain forest. To the northwest, you can see endless deserts and uninhabited grasslands, while to the northeast, Siberia is the same vast, cold, uninhabited. In the East, China faces the seas and the vast Pacific Ocean full of storms and dangers. China by geography was thus quite insulated and isolated from the other cradles of civilisations.

中国西部被冰雪和冰川覆盖，平均海拔3500米。西南部是茂密的热带雨林。在西北方向，你可以看到一望无际的沙漠和无人居住的草原，而在东北方向，西伯利亚同样广阔、寒冷、无人居住。在东方，中国面对海洋和广袤的太平洋，充满风暴和危险。因此，从地理上看，华夏文明与其他文明的发源地是完全隔绝的。

Such precipitous and closed terrain makes it difficult for Chinese people to communicate with foreign countries. For example, the eastern expedition of Emperor Alexander did not reach China. Therefore, the closed geographical environment has resulted in China's historical independence and cultural heritage.

如此险峻封闭的地形，使得中国人很难与外国进行交流。例如，亚历山大皇帝的东征并没有到达中国。因此，封闭的地理环境造就了中国的历史独立和文化遗产。

Even the nomads (Huns, Turks, Mongols, Manchus) who invaded China several times in history finally accepted the Chinese culture and merged with the Han nationality. As a result, a single nation state was created (the same is true for Korea and Japan in East Asia). The thought of "Chinese people" self-awareness has been sustained since the culture was never separated. Therefore, under this understanding, Chinese history has continued to form a super civilization for thousands of years.

即使是历史上多次入侵中原的游牧民族(匈奴、突厥、蒙古、满族)，最终也接受了中华文化，与汉族融合。结果，一个单一民族国家诞生了(东亚的韩国和日本也是如此)。“中国人”自我意识的思想从文化从未分离以来就一直持续着。因此，在这种理解下，中国历史在几千年的时间里持续形成了超级文明。